Get More Referrals From Colleagues: An Interview With Dr. Brian Dixon, Founder of FeelGuide

Transcript is generated by computers and lightly edited for readability. Sorry for any words it misunderstood.

Greg Goodman (00:02):
Hello, therapists, mental health professionals, psychiatrists. I'm going to ask you a little question. How's it going in the world of referrals these days? Because what I hear over and over again is that it's tough to get referrals.

Gone are the days where you show up at a networking event and hand out a business card, and people with wait lists are ready to send you the client of your dreams. In fact, it's kind of brutal out there nowadays when it comes to referrals. Referrals are drying up because wait lists are drying up.

And that doesn't mean referrals are done. In fact, referrals are more important than ever, right? Because nothing beats a referral. Nothing beats going into a call with somebody whose doctor or friend or coach, someone that they trust, has said, "Hey, you've got to talk to Brian over here. He's an amazing psychiatrist. You should work with him." That's a whole different energy than a random lead off Google.

But the question is: how do you still get referrals in this competitive environment, this AI-driven recession, whatever villain you want to insert here? How do you get referrals? And I'm all about tech. I'm all about how we can use technology to solve some of these challenges.

And that's what I'm really excited to chat about today with Brian Dixon. He is a practicing psychiatrist. He owns three companies in the mental health vertical. He's a private practice owner, he's a practice management company owner, and especially relevant to today, he's created a new referral platform that helps everybody find their best fit therapist. So we're going to dive into all of that.

And if you've ever seen any of these interviews and training sessions I've made, Brian's also going to share a little bit about how to build a referral network outside of his app, just in general, in this day and age. But for right now, I'm going to pass it over to Brian. I'd love for you to share whatever you'd like as an introduction. And thank you so much for being a part of this.

Dr. Brian Dixon (02:03):
Thank you, Greg. It is a pleasure to be here. Everybody, my background is as a psychiatrist, so I get to treat patients. I love working with itty bitties, especially itty bitties that throw fits. That's my jam. So if you have any kids that are doing the most, being knuckleheads, being defiant, especially if they're in Texas, send them my way.

I started my private practice back in 2014, before all these nifty forms and nifty software options. So I had to go out and beat the pavement and borrow a whole bunch of money, because I didn't know what I was doing. Over the course of the next decade, 10 to 12 years, I was able to build a sustainable practice. Out of that practice, I grew a practice management company that teaches people how to scale. And out of that company, I grew the referral platform we're going to chit-chat about today.

I'm going to share a lot of tips and tricks and things I've learned in the industry to hopefully help you get your caseload full and learn a little bit about yourself and your colleagues.

Greg Goodman (03:06):
Awesome. Thank you. I'm always curious ... I love people's stories. Clearly you've got the entrepreneurial spirit in you. No denying that. The man has created three companies. What's a little bit of the story of going from practice owner to practice management to "here's another business idea, let's do this"? What was that like?

Dr. Brian Dixon (03:26):
So Greg, anytime I'm teaching and coaching, I always tell folks the first step is know thyself. I was lucky to go through therapy. I was therapized during residency. I saw a therapist. And when I got out of residency in 2011, I was able to have supervisors and got therapy again.

It was when I got my second employee job after residency that I got written up for basically being insubordinate. It wasn't like I did anything wrong clinically. They didn't agree with how I do things in the break room, as it were, even though I think I'm a pretty nice guy. And that was when I heard the voice saying, "You know what? I think it's time for you to start your own thing."

So I started a private practice out of necessity. I needed a job. I didn't know what I was doing. I may look like a business person now, but that's not anywhere in my training or my past. I basically hung a shingle, made a website with Wix and made a whole bunch of stuff up. And I looked into a lot of amazing coaches and opportunities that I can share with you.

I grew the other companies out of necessity from that first company. I was terrible at hiring people, so that's how I eventually created a practice management company, because I was like, "Man, I'm really bad at this." Same thing with referrals. I would get so frustrated that I couldn't find the right therapist for my patients at the right time. And I was like, "This is dumb. I know that therapists who do EMDR for 17-year-olds exist. I just can't find them." That's where the third company grew out of.

Greg Goodman (05:15):
I resonate so much. For me, I graduated college with a fancy marketing degree. I was like, "Yeah, corporate America, I'm going to do it." I lasted a year. I was like, "Nope, I need to do my own thing." I need the freedom to create and to experiment. Entrepreneurship is a creative outlet. I believe that.

But let's dive in. We're talking about referrals here. What are you seeing in the world of referrals? Go for it. I'll let you take the floor.

Dr. Brian Dixon (05:55):
First and foremost, I always like to clear the air anytime I'm coaching or teaching or talking about referrals. Let's use the right language. While a referral is basically a recommendation between two people, there's a difference between leads and clients.

A client is someone who is a client or patient (I know we have some psychiatrists and medical folks listening to this). A client or patient is someone you have a legal HIPAA responsibility to. In other words, you can't go running around giving out their PHI, their protected health information, because that would be illegal. Every time you do that, that's a $25,000 fine if you get caught.

So that's that side. On the other side is a lead. A lead is just somebody who's asking you, "Hey, do you know a therapist who knows X, Y and Z?" Unfortunately, I think a lot of people get those confused, and as a result, they don't activate a lot of the leads that they get.

In other words, if you're in an Uber and your driver says, "Hey, what do you do?" and you say, "Oh, I'm a therapist," and they go, "Oh my God, I would love to find a therapist who will help me with X, Y and Z" ... well, that's a lead, meaning that's a referral. But what happens for most people is that they go nowhere.

So what I put to everybody, especially therapists, is that we need to reconfigure how we think about leads, and then get those leads as referrals over to the people who can best suit them. Because at the end of the day, you are not the best fit for everybody. You're not supposed to work with everybody. There are folks who are better at certain things than you are, but you can be the conduit to get those client referrals, patient referrals and lead referrals over to the right person in the industry. That's what I'm trying to solve, so that everybody's caseload gets full of the appropriate leads at the appropriate time.

Greg Goodman (07:55):
Well said. And it occurs to me, an Uber driver is probably going to be an amazing referral source. If you've got friends out there who drive for Uber or Lyft or whatever, they meet a lot of people and have a lot of conversations. Think outside the box, right? Everybody goes straight for therapist networking or the general practitioner, but if you really put the creative hat on, there are so many folks out there who could be referral sources.

Dr. Brian Dixon (08:23):
Yep. So Greg, it makes me laugh, because most times therapists don't like saying that they're therapists, partly for this reason. We go to a random networking thing, a chamber of commerce thing, a soccer game, and people say, "Oh, what do you do?" And a lot of therapists go, "I don't want to tell anybody I'm a therapist because it gets all awkward."

What I'm putting to everybody now is: tell people you're a therapist. Tell people you're a psychiatrist. And if you're part of the network we're building that I'll share with you, you become almost like a door greeter to the entire industry. You're like the Walmart greeter for the whole profession. They don't necessarily have to come to you, but you can help direct them to what aisle to go to, and whether to look up or down when they get to that aisle. And you can do that with this app that we built.

Greg Goodman (09:20):
Awesome. I love that.

Dr. Brian Dixon (09:23):
And with that said, before we even talk app stuff, I'm going to share something our business coach shared. Greg, if you'll pull up the PDF that I sent you.

Y'all can totally have this PDF. I built this out of my Simply Psych practice. Let me orient us really quickly. My private practice is in Texas. It's a direct-pay psychiatry practice where we take care of patients. I scooped all of the administrators I had in that company out and put them into their own company, so they could answer phones and schedule and do marketing for other practices, including my own. That company is called Simply Psych. As part of Simply Psych, we do some super high-level strategy business coaching, and one of those arms is the marketing arm.

Anytime I'm coaching therapists or psychiatrists about marketing, I always use this guide, because if you'll notice, there are lots of bubbles. The way I subdivide it, there are two different sides of marketing. There's the creation side: somebody has to make all the stuff that people will see. And then you have to get it out to people, so that's the distribution side. All marketing is, is letting your story be known, either your personal story or your company story. Sharing your story out into the universe. And you have to do both sides.

On the left-hand side, the categories of creation, you need the strategy first. If you don't have a strategy, this is where folks like Greg come in. They can help you hone and clarify a strategy. From that strategy, you can figure out what you want to do, because you may want to make a product, design a flyer, have an event, make a video, do a podcast, write a book, build a website. Those are the green bubbles.

But you'll notice every green bubble has even smaller bubbles that you probably can't see. Each one of those smaller bubbles is basically a service line all by itself. There are people out there like Greg and other folks who sub-specialize in those little bubbles off the side of the green.

I say that because so many folks go, "Well, I just need a marketer who will help me." And I'm like, if you don't ask a marketer the right question, you're going to end up spending a whole bunch of money, and you're going to be real frustrated. Because at the end of the day, every little bubble on the creation side takes a crap ton of work.

For example, if you want to write a book, a book has multiple layers. You have to get it edited. Somebody has to do the cover. You have to either self-publish or find a publisher. It's a whole thing, y'all. Same thing with events. "Oh, I just want to have a little book signing," or a networking thing. Well, somebody has to reserve it. You have to sort out the license and the bartender, if you're going to have one. If somebody's in recovery, you have to have a check. It's a whole thing.

I bring all that up because once you've created something, you then need to distribute it, and that's on the right side. You still need a strategy for distribution, so again, talk to folks like Greg. How you distribute it is all the blue bubbles. It could be social media. It could be a digital social network. It could be a website. It could be public relations (I have a PR person, which is different than general messaging). Digital ads, blogs, texting and email marketing are all different. You're going to have subject matter expert marketers in each of those blue areas, and then sub-subject matter experts in the pink areas.

I say all of this not to overwhelm you. If you read the middle, it basically says: number one, know yourself. If you are not a marketer, you should not be trying to do any of this stuff. Instead, let someone else do it for you, and you show up as the talent. You just smile and nod and do what you're told, as terrible as it sounds.

That goes for networking too. "Oh, I need referrals. I need to get my schedule full." If you don't know how to make a flyer or a business card, if you're wondering whether to put a QR code on it, what colors to use, whether to use heavy card stock or whether to take a card at all, what to wear, which events to go to ... there are people who can advise you on all of that, so you don't have to just figure it out, which is what I did.

At the end of the day, if you feel overwhelmed and you go, "Well, I'm just not going to do anything," that's also a choice. It just means you'll have an empty schedule, and I'm fine with that if you're fine with that.

So when it comes to referrals, your marketing strategy matters, and your strategy is all based on yourself. If you don't know your blind spots, your weaknesses or your strengths, either talk to a therapist and go get therapized, or talk to a business marketing expert, especially in mental health marketing. They can help nudge you to learn more about yourself, as well as how to create things and get them distributed in a way that gets you some type of return without blowing your entire budget. Hopefully that all makes sense in five minutes. Greg, do you have any questions about this graphic before I switch topics?

Greg Goodman (15:08):
No, you're preaching to the choir on so many things. Even at Goodman Creatives, there's a ton that we do, and I acknowledge that we are not your social media experts. We are not your printers. I do recommend QR codes on all of them. I recommend nice paper stock. I recommend a five-by-seven postcard with a checklist and a way for people to reach out, instead of a little business card. But in terms of which printer to use, there are experts in all of these micro-niches. I won't say nobody can be an expert on everything, because maybe somebody can, but we're certainly not.

We have our zone of genius, and everybody has their zone of genius. It's about what you choose, because you can't choose all the pink bubbles. You can't even choose all the green bubbles, right? There's not enough time, money and effort for that unless you're a gigantic company, which I don't think anybody watching this video is.

So to me, it's about choosing things that are in alignment with you. Not just your brand, because everyone is their own personal brand, whether you want to admit it or not. But what's in line with your ethics, what's in line with your values, what do you feel good about doing? What are your disclosure policies? How comfortable are you with putting yourself out there, and what's the you that you want to be as the Walmart greeter? What's the face you want to put out to the world? These are all very interesting questions.

Dr. Brian Dixon (16:41):
Yeah. And I'm a big fan of that team concept. All of those bubbles are domains and subdomains, and you can have different players on your team. When I wanted the PR side of things, I hired a small PR firm, and they put out a press release and did some stuff. For my Google Ads, I chose somebody different. For my general graphics, because I was like, "I don't know how to make graphics, nor do I want to," I chose a different team. Some folks are really good at Facebook ads.

Same thing with social media. I decided to go all in on LinkedIn and skip the rest of them, even though there are lots of folks on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok. I said, "No, I'm going to pour my efforts into LinkedIn." So that's critical.

And that leads me to the next teaching point, which is the referral software that we built. One of the hiccups with getting people to the right place is that nobody has enough time to organize all that data. There are big data sets like Psychology Today and LinkedIn, and keeping that data organized is hard. When you need it and you need to filter it, it's just not there. Unfortunately, there are lots of empty profiles and ghost profile kind of stuff going on.

So when we built our platform, FeelGuide (feelguide.network), we did it very intentionally, so that every person who logs in gives their most up-to-date data. Then we have a whole series of nurturing emails and touchpoints to make sure everybody's keeping their data up to date, because we want people to be able to find people when it's most necessary.

To facilitate that, we built an internal referral board where referrals don't disappear like they do on Facebook. If you post on Facebook or in a text or an email, you can't track them. They get lost in all the data these other platforms create. That's our whole reason for being. Somebody posts a referral there, you can track it, you can reach out to the people who are interested, you can communicate with them and ideally help find the right fit for that situation.

Greg Goodman (19:13):
Can I ask a clarifying question? When you mention data, what are you referring to specifically?

Dr. Brian Dixon (19:19):
Every therapist, every clinician, has probably millions of data points. That's what Meta and Facebook use to track you and sell you a whole bunch of stuff. We don't do that. We have data points that you give us. When you're onboarding, you submit your data willingly and freely, and we don't sell it. You talk about who you are, where you are, what you're really, really good at and what you're not so passionate about.

For example, I'm really passionate about working with kiddos who throw fits. I'm not as passionate about treating eating disorders, because it's not my forte. Can I? Yes. I was board certified. I know how to do it. But it takes a whole different skill set and a whole different energy for me to pull that off and do it well. So I've shifted more of my focus toward other types of maladaptive behaviors in little ones.

That's data I get to share inside the network. When referrals come in, there's a small AI algorithm behind your data that emphasizes the referrals in your wheelhouse and de-emphasizes the ones that aren't. So if someone sends a person with an eating disorder, that referral is more likely to go to the psychiatrist who ranked it higher than to me, since I ranked it lower. That doesn't mean we hate anybody or that we can't treat things. It's creating sub-specialization within the field, all based on the data our members willingly give us.

Greg Goodman (21:16):
You walked me through it the other day, and "really neat" feels like underselling it. I feel like it's revolutionary. And this is what's so amazing about all this AI stuff. We're not going to go into a study, and everyone has their own opinion on it, but the way AI and technology are coming together with folks like you who find a need and address it takes away some of the pressure and some of the stress. You don't have to travel. You get referrals that you like.

But it's also a give and take. I really believe we're all in this together. How do solo practice owners and small and mid-size group practices compete against the big folks? We won't name names. It's by harnessing the power of community, connection and shared effort. That's what I love about it: it's a place where you're not being sold to, where your data is safe, where you can put yourself out there and trust that what you put out comes back to you and then some. And from what you shared with me, that's been happening.

It's not necessarily a replacement for in-person networking, and I'd love to hear any of your power tips for that too, because you still need to do it. But why not have one more tool in the tool belt to grow a practice, help more people and make the world a better place?

Dr. Brian Dixon (23:12):
Greg, that was a perfect segue, and y'all, we did not rehearse any of this. One of the features Scott built into the platform is business card reading. Within the app, we have a virtual assistant named Faye. You click that button, Faye says, "What would you like to do?" and you say, "I want to take a snapshot of this business card." When you're at a networking event and someone hands you a business card, you take a snapshot. It reads it and sends an invite into the network on your behalf.

That eliminates the awkward step we all have when we get home with a stack of business cards and go, "S**t, I don't have time to respond to all these emails, follow up with everybody and put it into my CRM," your customer relationship management tool or your Excel spreadsheet or whatever you're using. We cut all that out, and you can do it right at the networking event.

So yes, I think in-person networking is the gold standard. I want people to go network. In fact, using our app gives you more time to sit and get to know people, instead of trying to remember to write something on the card. You can take a snapshot, invite them and, while you're still there, send them a message through the platform if you want. That's one small feature.

And Greg, I'm with you. My goal with this platform, and in life in general, is to democratize how people access mental health care. It's been gatekept by the big guys for so long: the hospital systems and the health insurance systems. They have all the data, and they don't share it. And in mental health especially, nobody invests in us.

When I'm feeling really spicy and salty, I'll stand in rooms and say, "Does everybody agree that we value what we pay for, and we pay for what we value?" If you see a skyscraper, that's a sign a city has invested in a certain thing. Look at any city in the United States. What industry does that skyscraper represent? Oil and gas, real estate, financial services, wealth management. It's never mental health. There's not one single building in a downtown metro area anywhere in this country that's mental health-related. So do we really value mental health? No.

I can go and beg those folks to do the right thing, or I can go out with the 500,000 (I think there are actually over a million) clinicians in this country and build a kind of digital city, a digital superhighway, where at least on the mental health side, we can get people where they need to go, bypass the gatekeeping these big monopolies have, and make care more transparent, affordable and customized. That's my big, hairy, audacious goal. My BHAG, as they say in business coaching circles.

Greg Goodman (26:51):
Love it. I love a solid humanitarian mission of putting power back where it belongs, in the hands of individuals and not corporations. I'll leave it at that, because I can get salty and spicy with you on this topic too, and that's not what we're here to do.

And one other thing: the environmentalist in me loves that the scan means one less business card in the trash. Anytime someone tries to give me a business card, I say, "No, no, no, let me take a cell phone photo of it, because if you give it to me, I'm going to take a picture of it and throw it away anyway." No disrespect. I love your business card. But let's reduce waste.

So, app aside, any other tips for folks who are still going out there networking and building their referral network, before we wind down?

Dr. Brian Dixon (27:54):
A couple of other things. Top-of-mind awareness, I think, is what you marketers call it: the ability of a brand to be thought of in the moment it's needed. The best way to get top-of-mind awareness is to make sure your pitch is really short and memorable. For me, when I say, "I love kids who throw fits," people go, "Oh, I get it," and boom, I'm in. If I said, "I love kids who throw fits, and I can also treat da-da-da-da-da," at some point they won't remember my tagline, and then they'll forget everything else I said. It's not memorable. So pick something, or say it in a way that's catchy.

The second thing is that you have to follow up, and this is the hardest part for me. It's a pain in the a*s, but you do have to follow up, and you might have to follow up three, four, five, seven, 10 times. The key is don't be annoying. Send an email that says, "Hey, just thinking about you. If you need anything, let me know." Then two weeks later: "Hey, I was thinking about what we talked about, and I wanted to offer X, Y and Z." That's super helpful. I know it feels salesy and weird. Guess what? It is salesy and weird. Just do it, because it's helpful.

Ideally, you'd also track that stuff. Write it down, because if you don't track it, you don't know exactly what you're doing or where you're doing it.

And the last piece is give to get. This has been so true for me, Greg. I read one of those books (was it "The 1-Page Marketing Plan" or "The Little Red Book of Selling"? I can't remember) that basically said, "Give it away." And I was like, "I don't know what you're talking about." Well, give some of your ideas away. I don't give psychiatry services away for free, but I give the information away.

I would go out and give talks on anxiety and depression. I'd go to mom groups and doctors' offices and say, "I'll gladly show up and give you a lecture, and you all provide the lunch." I'd smile and nod and answer questions, and it worked like an absolute dream. The number of people suffering from anxiety and depression continues to go up, and people want quality information.

So get outside your comfort zone, all you introverts. Tone it down, all you extroverts. Start tracking your stuff. Follow up with people. Find something catchy so you can stay top of mind.

And the last thing I'll say, and then I'll shut up because I can talk about this stuff forever: not everybody is meant to be in charge. If you're in private practice, especially solo, and you're like, "Oh man, I hate this," that may be a sign to go find an employee job, or join another practice, maybe a small one, where you can effect change at a smaller scale. Or if you want the agency approach, you can do that. But there's nothing that says you have to be miserable while you run a practice. I don't understand the benefit of being miserable. That's probably a whole other topic for another day. But there are lots of small moves you can make today to get your schedule more full, especially signing up for FeelGuide.

Greg Goodman (31:25):
I could comment on everything you said, but the biggest one I want to reflect on is the catchphrase idea. Because it's true: the generalist just isn't having the same success. We see it all the time with our clients, in the industry and in any business, anywhere. Who's more memorable? Who gets paid more? The brain surgeon or the general practitioner, to overgeneralize.

That memorable, catchy tagline is such a huge advantage, because there are probably another dozen therapists at that networking event with a short spiel, but yours is catchy. Yours rhymes.

And what popped into my mind is that some folks watching this are thinking, "Oh, I could never come up with something like that." I hear it all the time. "I'm not a copywriter. I'm not a marketer." You know who is? ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini. Pick your lesser of the evils of the AI robots. Put your practice in, share some information and say, "I'm going to some networking events. I need some catchy rhyming slogans that capture what I do in three to five memorable words." That's your prompt.

Then brainstorm back and forth. "That was terrible. Don't ever give me anything like that." "Ooh, that one was interesting. Let's do more like that." Just have a conversation with your AI. It's a great way to do it, because being memorable is such a huge thing.

And like you said, I think 20 years ago, you needed five or six touchpoints to make a sale, and nowadays the number is something like 12 to 15, depending on the industry. But as you said, be salesy, because at the end of the day, yes, it's sales, but it's sales as a service. It's heart-led sales. You're not selling an iPhone or something nobody needs. You're selling a better life for a human being. If that means you've got to promote yourself a little bit and do sales, as uncomfortable as it may be, I think it's a big reframe: sales as a service. That's my alliteration of the day.

Dr. Brian Dixon (33:40):
I love it, and I think that was beautifully put. Just so you all know, feel free to steal it. I wrote down "heart-led sales," and Greg, I'm going to take that from you. So thank you.

Greg Goodman (33:52):
Please do. Give it away for free, right? You give it away for free, you help a lot of people along the way, and you trust that the right people will become the clients who pay. And to give you an opportunity: you've mentioned your website a little bit. Anything else people should know before we say au revoir?

Dr. Brian Dixon (34:13):
Sign up. There's a free trial for at least 30 days, so you can poke around. Licensed clinicians can sign up now. We're hoping to get PCPs, acupuncturists and other non-mental health licensed clinicians on board. The third phase is getting discharge planners and case managers on board.

And if you ever want to keep up with me in general, I'm on LinkedIn, and drbriandixon.com is my branded website, because Greg, you're right: you have to have a branded website somewhere out there in the universe. So that's mine.

Greg Goodman (34:48):
Awesome. Brian, this was awesome. Brian and I met on LinkedIn, speaking of the power of networking and social media. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, for creating this platform and for being a willing participant in the interview series.

All of Brian's information and website links will be below this video, on whatever platform you're watching. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your time and for being here with us, and have a beautiful day.